rodndtube.com's (OLD) MyPaipoBoards Forums. Reading but no posting on the OLD forums.

[ellis1973]

Me again. I was wondering if most of you guys use fins on their paipo? And what size and set up you use and how it makes your board ride?
Cheers again for any answers!

[SJB]

I ride an Austin which has the 2-1 set up......but I have only used the center fin once and I found it superfluous and it seemed to restrict the maneuverability unnecessarily. Having said that.....I am seldom out in anything overhead and when it gets to 8ft+ I stay on shore. I use the standard side fin size that Austin provides with the board....3 inch range.
Austin told me he prefers to just use the side bites also.
I believe Rod likes the center fin....5 inch......with 2 inch side bites. I hope I am not misrepresenting him.

[Uncle Grumpy]

You will never go faster then you will on a finless board.
Fins give you better turning ability but you will sacrifice speed.
If you have never tried a thin finless paipo/alaia you owe it to yourself to make one and ride it. The feeling is like no other.
_________________
Prone to ride.

[rodndtube]

[SJB]

Uncle Grumpy suggest a finless board is the speediest.....and although I do not want to get on the wrong side of someone with that moniker......my experience with finless is that sometimes It seems I spend energy sliding sideways toward shore when I would prefer more direction along the face of a wave to get through a section before it closes out. The fins seem to provide that direction. No? Trade offs?

[Uncle Grumpy]

SJB,
I suspect you are talking about trying to ride your Austin finless and if so, that's the problem.
Finless boards really work best with thin rails, not chunky surfboard rails.

Your skepticism indicates to me you've likely never ridden a proper paipo.
Scrounge up a 2' X 4' hunk of plywood and whip out a board like OG AZN's and see for yourself.




My daily ride, modeled after Tom Wegener's Findley, is finless, less then ¾" and hauls ass right past finned surfboards and boogers.



Of course, on boards like this, the obvious trade off is you won't be "schralping" or "shredding", but they fly like nothing else and with a little water time, you can actually carve very smooth turns.
_________________
Prone to ride.

[OG-AZN]

I've never used fins on a paipo. I was going to give it a try on my latest board, making a copy of one of my longboard center fins, but I thought better of it and took it off before the first test ride. Board works just fine without it, even when knee riding or drop knee. When I was growing up in Hawai'i, I recall paipos with fins were in the minority. Might have had something to do with the "no skegs" rule at popular paipo spots like Makapu'u, Panics, & the Wall. The paipos I tried that had fins seemed slower & stiffer/less maneuverable than ones without - it was hard to break them out of a straight line. I don't think fins are necessary on a short paipo board where your legs & swim fins can easily engage the face of the wave for control if you have to. All my paipos have been 4 ft or less, and 3/4" or less thick.

[rodndtube]

I agree with Uncle Grumpy that finless boards work best with thin boards. Several other arguments about finless vs. finned become more complicated largely because of the nature of compromise in board design. A board design maximized for speed may not turn very well. A board design maximized for turning may be much slower.

Even speed needs to be defined: (1) straight down the line speed or speed created from projection and torque in turns?

There is no doubt that most would consider skegs bringing several capabilities -- virtually ALL stand-up surfboards have skegs, 1, 2, 3 or 4 and sometimes 5. I have seen very, very few kneeboards without skegs -- 2 or 4 are favorite setups. George Greenough uses a skeg on his "thin" velo-style board... a large one. Even wake boards and kite boards have fins.

Ultimately, it is up to the individual rider to determine the relative value of skegs. The best way to evaluate the relative benefits is to have a board with at least a 3 fin set-up and experiement with different fin sizes on the sides and center fin and forward or aft placement of the center fin. With an FCS box you can also experiment somewhat with placement if you have a single male plug FCS fin (instead of the standard double male plug).
_________________
rodNDtube
"Prone to ride"
I love my papa li`ili`i

[Uncle Grumpy]

Here's a twelve page discussion RE: finless boards on Sway's:

http://www2.swaylocks.com/forums/less-fins

Most have complicated bottoms like this:



or this




Ryan Burch and Tyler Warren's "yard possum" crew are some of the younger surfers out there who understand you don't necessarily need "skegs" or complicated bottom and rail shapes on a surfboard to get the job done.

http://vimeo.com/8941685



One of the now famous "Lord Boards"




I should add that my latest project is a twin fin, epoxy glassed, balsa/redwood bellyboard so I'm not strictly a finless freak.

But I do know what's fastest.
_________________
Prone to ride.

[bgreen]

I have been just transcribing an interview for Rod where the issue of fins versus finless came up. Unlike the interviewee, I find that finless boards slide not when it is hollow but when it is full and you lose the edge. This has been the case on alaia, Galera no fins & a Goddard replica. The strategy to handle this varies across the respective board type.

In hollow, solid waves I find these boards grip not slide. Sliding can occur if a wave suddenly goes from hollow to full & very occasionally, if body positioning is not right.

Bob

[Uncle Grumpy]

Quite right Bob.
Riding up high, they fly in control, but let 'em get down in the flats and that's when it's time to "slide ass"
_________________
Prone to ride.

[ellis1973]

[rodndtube]

[ellis1973]