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[gcs]

Hello!

Great discussion, there seems to be an endless debate about stiffness v. flex, rails v. fins in terms of maximising potential for speed. It has always amazed me how skegless boogie boards lock into the wave on about three or four inches of rail - I have one with tapered rails, going back to 50/50 at the rear where they lock in and it flies better than any I've had. I have two questions, principally with regard to boogie boards, but maybe broader:

1. Could a skegless boogie hold an edge if it had fully rounded rails, all the way back?

2. Are todays boogie boards too stiff - have they lost some of their funtionality and fun because of their lack of flex compared to the older dow 7-7s and the like?

What I'm getting at is I remember the benefits of being able to alter the rocker in some sucky hollow waves (the down side is that they wore out and creased!)

Great forum, looking forward to the design aspects!!
_________________
gcs

[Solo]

gcs,

>"Could a skegless boogie hold an edge if it had fully rounded rails, all the way back?"

Yes, and if the round rails are large enough, they won`t release like a sharply beveled bodyboard rail... they`ll stick to the wave no matter what angle of rail to the water`s surface. BUT... a simple piece of finless 1/4\" plywood will also cut high across peeling walls, through the deepest tubes, bottom turn, cut back and can be significantly faster than any bodyboard. It`ll cost you less than $5.00... saw to shape, smooth edges, apply a good coat of wax... and go surfing. Plus, if you cut oversize, you can have the fun of gradually changing the template. Easy and free!

>"Are todays boogie boards too stiff - have they lost some of their funtionality and fun because of their lack of flex compared to the older dow 7-7s and the like?"

I think so... Tom Morey`s original concept of freedom through flexibility was very different from what we see in today`s bodyboards. If you can find them, read a few of Morey`s earliest ads for his $25.00 "Boogie" kits... you`ll be surprised!

>"What I'm getting at is I remember the benefits of being able to alter the rocker in some sucky hollow waves (the down side is that they wore out and creased!)"

Bodyboards can be made so flexible they`re almost floppy, and they can also be built rigid... both will work better in some ways, worse in others.

IMHO, the truth is that really fine, functional, wide range surfing equipment needs to have the best of BOTH characteristics... and they aren`t mutually exclusive. But in order for any flex to be truly functional, it must have memory, it must be resilient, quickly and forcefully snapping back into it`s original position. This is true in any flexible sports equipment, a perfect example being the snow board.

The big problem for most people who think about such things, has been how to achieve that goal. Using the same old flexible foam materials, methods of construction and internal stiffeners, in different combinations, will not resolve this issue.

Another problem, if a design has any flex, is the prone rider`s body weight inhibiting/deadening flex and sensation. The same thing happens when a conventional surfer puts his weight (back foot- standing) on top of a flextail board... it kills the action in the tail. Since current bodyboard manufacturers design their equipment far more stiff than supple, the question of any substantial, tuned flex isn`t an issue.

Besides that, some of the flex patterns that have the greatest positive effect are impossible to achieve with thick flex foam and a slick plastic bottom... this type of flex doesn`t happen under the elbows or in the middle. It`s located in the last few inches of a board`s rear corners.

[doc]

I like what you're saying, not least 'cos it's going along with a few of my own ideas.

Concerning the bodyweight impeding flex...and a couple other things; has anyone considered something like the sliding pad you see on the paipo's distant cousin, the luge? Strikes me that it wouldn't be all that hard to do, given a piece of lexan sheet, some deck pad foam, a couple of channels/retainers and some of that high-molecular-weight polyethylene or whatever it is they make bushings and wear strips out of - you can buy it quite thin, flexible and peel-and-stick.

Might be handy if you wanted to play with just where that bodyweight was on the board along with the ability to change it fast...

[Solo]

gcs,

You asked, "Could a skegless boogie hold an edge if it had fully rounded rails, all the way back?"

See link below for 3 closeups of a (finless) paipo`s rail line. Note the taper from thicker, rounder front to thin, edged back. You don`t necessarily need any fins, beveled bodyboard rails or dragging swimfins to have enough hold for fast, fun surfing. It all depends on the performance and feel that you`re seeking...

http://digitalstar.com/dalesolomonson/OriginalImages/289714ORIG.JPG