rodndtube.com's (OLD) MyPaipoBoards Forums. Reading but no posting on the OLD forums.

tumak · Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:16 am Post subject: Fin experimentation

Greetings to all fellow paipologists! Rod, thanks for creating this forum! Last week we had wonderful surf for paipo here in south Brevard Co. (FL); for seven days straight I was in paipo heaven...or, micro-heaven...it was small but really nice nonetheless. For a few days, it was breaking in really shallow water...so shallow that I had to bring out my 4'6" twin fin paipo with 4.75" fins. During this time, it occurred to me that I needed to come up with another fin to use on my 5' balsa board. The balsa had a 10" Greenough 4A fin on it, too deep for shallow conditions! So, I rumaged through my box of old fins and selected a clear Rainbow Wingnut "Longrake" longboard fin, and proceeded to cut it down. Alas! I created a 6" fin with a wide base (probably around 7"). It looks a little odd, but yesterday we had hollow stomach-high peelers with offshore winds, perfect for testing the fin. It was a gas! It's really free, enabling the board to pull off much quicker turns, as well as spinners. Spinners on a paipo...something I'm just starting to play with...maybe it's not really a spinner; maybe it's a 360...where you slip the fin free and slide around in a circle until the fin grabs again. Whatever it is, it's kinda fun, though I'm normally not a guy who's into doing tricks. On big surf, the 10" fin has a proven record of performance, but I'm planning to explore the possibilities of using the 6" fin on larger waves just to see what happens...will I be spinning out all over the place?

rodndtube · Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 10:01 am Post subject:

IMHO, fins are one of the relatively uncharted areas of the waveriding world. Our knowledge of fins and their impact on our surfing boards in not widely understood my many or most riders. It's not an area that plank owners do very much experimentation, e.g., it's isn't easy to do with glassed-on fins! It's almost funny that people will spend hundreds, or thousands, of dollars for a quiver of boards when a collection of fins could serve much of the same purpose by varying the size, shape and position.

What do I know? Technically, not much! But, my last two boards were built with Fins Unlimited fin boxes for fitting two small side fins and one larger center fin. The side fins were custom made (because they are so small). The center fin is a 6" True Ames that varies in placement by as much as 1-1/2 inches depending upon wave conditions.
_________________
rodNDtube
"Prone to ride"
I love my papa li`ili`i

Poobah · Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:27 pm Post subject: Shallow fins

Yes, I agree a six inch fin is a good size for small waves in shallow water. I used to ride an El Paipo 54 a lot at a local beach break. Single fin box, FU old style with two screws. I found a fin that wasn't collectible quality, and shaped it down to six inches tall. I ended up using it most of the time. Some folks with single center boxes might consider having a three inch blunt fin for small waves when you share the water with a lot of bodysurfers.

Solo · Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:46 pm Post subject:

Poobah... here`s an example (built in 1984) of shallow fins, runners and strakes.

The bottom of this triplane has two sets of runners on each side of the running area, adjacent to the strakes, toward the nose. There are two strakes running the length of the bottom, which divide the central planing area from the beveled rail chines. The strakes increase in height and become dual keel fins toward the tail.

If anyone`s curious, I can provide detailed info regarding performance, construction- specs, material resources and additional photos.

Many thanks for the great new forum, Rod!

All my best in 2004,

Solo

http://digitalstar.com/dalesolomonson/images/280028.JPG

doc · Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:13 pm Post subject:

I'm gonna chime in on this one too -

I think maybe center fins on paipos - or possibly fins at all - are something that came in from surfboards and can be done without. Between a thin rail and a minimal side fin, you'd be surprised what kind of edge you can hold, even on a quite sizable day and a very steep section. Look at bodyboards, even with fairly thick rails. Look at those crazies who ride skimboards down the beach at the Wedge and then go screaming along as the wave nearly parallels the beach - and they don't seem to lack a whole lot of control.

Better yet - fins are drag. If you got rid of 'em, what would you have? Less drag. More speed.

Poobah · Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:05 pm Post subject: One inch fins

I have a twinfin board with one inch fins. I started out with three fins that were two inches, then I removed the center fin and cut the side fins in half. I did have the advantage of a very thin board. I was doing some night riding at the time, and it was nice to be able to ride all the way in. Eliminated having to do the "stingray shuffle" walk to shore. A good board for crowded conditions, too.

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp16/Lamaroos/marvin01.jpg

http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp16/Lamaroos/marvin03.jpg

doc · Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: One inch fins

Phantom · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:23 pm Post subject:

Until the timely creation of this forum, I had planned to attend A.S.R.,San Diego, in a few days, and possibly get some water time with Poobah.Now a large chunk of foam from a snapped longboard has been aquired (for a mere sixer),and I have free reign of shaping bay #2. Which means its time to pull some ideas together; a mini-velo, yet with the spooned out area refilled with flexible ethafoam for floatation.Unsure on the fin call, as I perfer to slip into the groove,on my present board, rather than getting hung up too high in the keg...

Solo · Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:42 pm Post subject:

Here`s another angle...

molded polyurethane fins from a male plug. The urethane`s durometer can be chosen for just about anything from firm to flexible.

http://www.momentoffame.com/snapshots/MomentOfFame/l67401.jpg

I`ve purchased "Smooth-On" polyurethanes from:

www.techno-industrial.com/smooth/liqura.html

Douglas and Sturgess is also an exceptional supplier of hard-to-find materials and information: www.artstuf.com/

Poobah · Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:12 am Post subject: Flexible Strakes

Solo, that is just too cool. Did you ever make any flexible urethane strakes?

Solo · Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:20 pm Post subject:

Poobah,

No... all the strakes on my boards have been integral to the design. But those triplanes' long, shallow runners have been made separately from 1/8" thick vinyl (common semi-soft, baseboard material), bonded to the bottom surface with VLP vinyl resin.

Here`s a close-up of a red chine, 1/4" tall strake and two runners. Both the red and white Naugahyde surfaces are gloss metal flake:

http://digitalstar.com/dalesolomonson/images/293890.JPG

A similar view of another triplane:

http://digitalstar.com/dalesolomonson/images/293912.JPG

tumak · Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:40 pm Post subject:

Okay, here's the news: I decided my little cut-down fin was too short for waves over say...waist high...while the 10" Greenough 4A was too big for average surf around here (usually in the waist to chest range). So, yesterday I followed my intuition and went to the Longboard House in Indialantic and bought one of their Squirrel Cutaways...8"...translucent smoky gray. Today I took the balsa HFP out in chest high semi-glassy surf at North Spessard Holland Park...FaNtAsTiC! I think it's a great fin for paipo. Got a paipo with a single Bahne box? You might wanna try one! Via con paipo, señor!

tumak · Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:26 am Post subject:

Uh-oh...Vaya con paipo, señor!, that is. In the middle of the night, I realized I'd misspelled that...being a good Virgo, I just couldn't let it slide! ...never was any good at Spanish...

Halcyon · Joined: 09 Mar 2004 Posts: Location: Santa Cruz, Ca.

Here are some general observations about fin concepts that's I'm fairly sure applies to all surfcraft.
There's no doubt that boards go faster in a straight line without fins.
Rail fins tend to slow you down when you going straight particularly when they have some tow in. Too much center fin produces excess drag and interferes with smooth rail to rail transition.
Double foiled rail fins with moderate tow-in and a small stabilizing center fin can be a very good compromise if you want to really go fast. Ole-school fishes are a real good example of this double foiled little tow-in approach to rail fins. If you like the feel of a center fin and still want some drive off the rails. A cutaway center (there's many ways to do a cutaway) balanced properly with smaller side fins can be a tremendous combination in big waves because the lift & drive you get off the side fins in combination with a dominant center fin makes the board go faster in the turns. It also lets you surf more of the wave face. Undercambered rail fins that are foiled very thin and have eased leading and trailing edges make for some real smooth high speed carving.

Everyone likes something a little different it's about styles and surf conditions, not peer group pressure.

Mahalo, Rich

"Custom Finmaker"

tumak · Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:09 am Post subject:

Halcyon - Thanks for the information...yeah, I'm stoked to have tried the cutaway. I like a single-fin approach a lot, and had the big fin in my balsa board when I fancied it as somewhat of a kneeboard. When I decided that kneeboarding didn't thrill me, it took me a short while to realize that I didn't need such a big fin to ride prone. The "Squirrel Cutaway" opened it up so nicely that I can't imagine going back to a wide-based fin. My new 5' balsa paipo (maybe closer to 4'11") will be done in a few days, and it too will have a single 8" squirrel in it.
I also have a 4'6" twin-fin fish. It has two Futures carbon fiber fins; I think they're about 4.75". Around here, I find that the twin-fin is a little too drifty for me...losing speed in the sections where battling white water requires drive. A single 8" cutaway seems to preserve the drive nicely in those situations. I've never liked the way three-finned boards look, ever since I first had one back in (yikes!) 1971. At the same time, I can't imagine a board with no fins giving me the drive I prefer in a wave. I'd like to perhaps experiment with that concept someday, but right now I'm comfortable putting what little money I have into more familiar design based in the medium of solid balsa.