rodndtube.com's (OLD) MyPaipoBoards Forums. Reading but no posting on the OLD forums.

[r32]

Hi guys,

Well it has been a while since I've posted. Been working on a HUGE project for the last six months. The project is to document the entire history of bodyboarding. And I mean EVERYTHING. Now, before you get your paipo's in a bunch..hehe j.k., I'd like to ask...where do Paipo's fit in? They are at the beginning I believe. Before bodyboards. But do they fit after the beginning of bodyboarding too? They have evolved as bodyboards have and sort of side-by-side in many ways.

I feel there is a strong connection between Paipo's and bodyboards especially when you consider dropknee style of bodyboarding. I'd like to include Paipo's in the history of bodyboarding because I believe they are an integral part.

Here is the website:
www.BodyboardersJournal.com

More than 600+ pages of information have been posted so far and I am FAR from being finished. There are tons of things planned for the upcoming year, as I find more time to add information. But..in working on writing the entire history of bodyboarding (a book...shhhh), I really want to explore this connection between Paipo's and Bodyboarding and figure out what role it played and how they are integrated in the past, and how they are related now.

I'd love to hear everyone's opinion, history, stories, and everything. This site is clearly the definitive collection of paipo history in the world.

Cheers,
Michael

[kage]

Don't you mean "how bodyboards fit in to the history of paipos"? hehe.

[bgreen]

Michael,

I know you are approaching this from a body board perspective, but I think the question does need rephrasing - along the lines of how have prone wave riding craft developed.

There are a number of issues.


1. As far as my very modest inquiries could tell, the term paipo is relatively recent and is probably not an Hawaiian word as such. There are approximations but I could not find the word paipo in several online publications and other sources that I consulted. The 1970s was the closest timeframe that I could find for the origin of the term "paipo".

2. The term 'alaia' does appear to have historical useage. Clearly, alaia are having a resurgence and there are several sources of this development. The UK bellyboard appear to have been an offshoot that has kept a flame burning, while every now and then a picture of a young kid in Africa or the Pacific suggests other sources (though some may be attempts to copy visiting surfers).

3. The actual body board appears to have a clear lineage from Morey, though no doubt, there were other collaborators or people thinking along similar lines - as suggested by creations I have seen Dale Solomonson post. Then there are mats & an account that kneeboards developed from paipo - there are some links on Rod's site to footage about kneeboards & their origins in Santa Cruz . Plywood bellyboards were around in the 60s in Australia and in his 1965 book, Midget Farrelly predicted "peipo" would become very popular.

4. If you surveyed people on this site, I believe the boards being ridden would be a very diverse collection of finned and finless craft, made form a variety of materials.

Rod deserves a place in any history for providing a forum for a very eclectic group of people together from around the world.

Then there is a current visitor to Oz who goes by the name proneman, who apparently rides a 10' + board which he variously rides standing, kneeing and prone.

What is a paipo?


Bob

[Uncle Grumpy]

Michael,
The book Legendary Surfers Vol. 1 is a good starting place for your research. http://www.legendarysurfers.com/surf/legends/ls02z_boards.html
Contrary to bgreen's statement, the word Paipo is an old Hawaiian word.
The word describes the smallest of the Hawaiian Papa he'e nalu (Wave Sliding Board).
These boards were often made from breadfruit tree wood and typically about 2'-4' in length and ridden prone. These smaller boards were also known as kioe.
This book is essential reading for anyone interested in surfing's earliest roots.
Good luck with your project.

[bgreen]

Uncle G,

I don't have access to the article you mention which would be worthwhile obtaining. What I wrote was:

'As far as my very modest inquiries could tell, the term paipo is relatively recent and is probably not an Hawaiian word as such. There are approximations but I could not find the word paipo in several online publications and other sources that I consulted. The 1970s was the closest timeframe that I could find for the origin of the term "paipo" '

Does the article say that the actual word 'paipo' was used in ancient times? It sounds like 'Papa he'e nalu' is the Hawaiian word to describe a prone craft. A post in response to my enquiries on Swaylocks suggested paipo was a corruption of an old word: http://www2.swaylocks.com/node/1027790

Bob

[Uncle Grumpy]

Bob,
These are all very old words.
Surfing was a huge part of Island peoples lives before the know it all haole's showed up. Auwe
The tradition of surfing was brought to the Hawaiian Islands from farther West long ago.........

'Papa he'e nalu' = generic term for surfboard
Paipo= Small belly board
Alaia= Mid size thinnish board up to about 9'+
Kiko'o = Longboard 12-18'
Olo= Giant Royal Boards 18-24'

Get the book.
http://www.cafepress.com/legendarysurfer.20579878
Or
You can also buy chapters online:
http://www.legendarysurfers.com/surf/legends/ls01z_firstsurfers.html

[bgreen]

Uncle G,

It would be interesting to know the source that was used. I'll look into it a bit more,

regards

Bob

[rodndtube]

Malcolm Gault-Williams, the author of the Legendary Surfers living book, is a decent scholar and will likely be willing to shed some light on the question of the name(s) used for our short, prone riding craft. One of the challenges in the matter of language, or linguistics, is the use or lack of use of certain terms, verbs, nouns and adjectives and to have many names for something that the English language may only use one word to describe. Is it the Tahitians who don't have a word for "time?" And the Greeks that have 20 words for our English word "love?"
_________________
rodNDtube
"Prone to ride"
I love my papa li`ili`i

[bgreen]

Hello Rod,

I sent Malcolm an e-mail a few days ago. Hopefully the inquiry will reveal some further history on paipo.

Bob

[r32]

Great information guys!

This is all fascinating stuff and I think it would be awesome to create some definitive source with all of the information in one spot. That's what I'm working towards, and no doubt it will take me a few years to get everything together. I work on this out of my free time of course.

I'll try to get a copy of Legendary Surfers Vol. 1 and try to get in contact with Malcolm. Can anyone send me his email? info@bodyboardersjournal.com

I think a trip back to the islands would be a good call. Talk to some locals, and get in touch with some people. I'm going to try and set that up for next winter. No use going during the summer right? hehe.

Thanks again everyone! The book is quickly evolving from a simple idea to a full blown history is wave riding vehicles. Who knows where this fun can go!

[bgreen]

r32,

Try this blog site:

http://www.legendarysurfers.com/blog/

Vol 1 is located at:
http://www.legendarysurfers.com/surf/legends/ls02z_boards.html

or free if you read Japanese:

http://www16.plala.or.jp/fluidriding/fun/bb/legendary_surfer/ancienthawaii/ls02.html

http://www16.plala.or.jp/fluidriding/fun/bb/legendary_surfer/surferorigin/ls01.html

Bob

[Uncle Grumpy]

If you go to HI you need to visit the Bishop Museum.

[bgreen]

Below is a reply I kindly received from Malcolm

Hi, Bob ~ Sorry about the late reply... There is no specific reference to "paipo" as a name for traditional Hawaiian bodyboards. So, for instance, if you look under "paipo" in a standard Hawaiian dictionary, you won't find it. My feeling is the name for the body board has been lost in time. Other names, obviously, have been preserved (olo, kiko'o, alaia)... the term "paipo" -- as far as I know -- is a relatively new term for body board, originating, I think, in the 1960s. Hope this helps.
MALCOLM GAULT-WILLIAMS

Bob

[bgreen]

Malcolm sent me two further e-mails which I include below:


# 1
Also, Uncle Grumpy is correct when he wrote:

"These boards were often made from breadfruit tree wood and typically about 2'-4' in length and ridden prone. These smaller boards were also known as kioe."Â

I had forgotten that Hawaiian word, but it is in the dictionary and it is defined as "a small surfboard."

# 2
If one is looking for a true Hawaiian name for the Hawaiian body board it would probably be kioe (not to be confused with ki'o'e, which means ladle or spoon). Certainly not paipo.

MALCOLM GAULT-WILLIAMS

[Poobah]

Does anybody know what's the earliest apearance of the word "paipo" in Surfing magazines?

There was an early sixties article by Val Valentine about his Paipo Nui boards. So I assume existing paipos at that time were usually smaller than Val's boards.

We should pick Tom Morey's brain sometime, like what was the bigger influence for him when he made the boogie...fiberglass bellyboards, wooden paipos, canvas mats, styrofoam mini surfboards, or was it a combination?

We have spoon kneeboards, then why not a ladle paipo?