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Poobah Dolphin Glider
Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 696 Location: California, San Diego
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:44 am Post subject: Asymmetrical Paipo Designs and Hydrofoils |
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The recent "Flipper" project, an asymmetrical mini-paipo by member Surffoils, has got me thinking about asymmetry vs. symmetry. For starters....Why be symmetrical? Because it's normal for stand-up boards? Are we guilty of being contented citizens of The Village? Perhaps it's time to stop marching in formation and happily twirling our colorful umbrellas. We've been prisoners of balance and symmetry long enough. Let's try something different, and let's not stop at asymmetrical templates. We can unbalance the thickness, rail shape, texture, materials, flex, channells and fin depth. What else? Put the logo on crooked of course. Maybe you do it because your home wave breaks slower to the left than to the right. Maybe you just want to compare apples and oranges. Maybe you do it because you're not a number, but a free man (or woman.) |
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Thierry
Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: Location: France
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:38 am Post subject: |
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Poobah, this is a very interesting point.
I can see two reasons why boards shouldn't be symmetric :
1 - You surf (whatever board) on a point break with waves peeling always in the same direction. Then we can say that bottom and top turns aren't done the same way and the board should be adapted to that different technique, speed and shape of the wave.
2 - you surf a stand-up board and your frontside turn is not identical to your your backside turn (at least this is the case for me with my poor technique).
This way has already been explored in the 70-80's with windsurf boards used on point breaks and/or spots where the wind always come from the same direction (and the riding is done down the line and frontside). The bottom turn rail was longer to draw more powerful and stable turn and the top turn rail shorter for a quick turn with far less speed and power.
I'm pretty sure surfboard shapers have tried that but what has it become ? There must be something about this on Swaylocks.
Some Wake boards, kitesurf boards and alpine snowboards are shaped this way. _________________ Frogsurfer |
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Nels Dolphin Glider
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 340 Location: Ventura County, California
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Virtually all my homebuilt handboards and paipos are asymmetrical |
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Thierry
Joined: 05 Aug 2005 Posts: Location: France
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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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... _________________ Frogsurfer |
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tumak Dolphin Glider
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 Posts: 131 Location: FL, Indian Harbour Beach
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Ha ha! Yeah, if your shaper is really poor, then you're ALREADY riding asymmetrically. But hey, why stop there? To take it to the limit, you have to then move into twist. Example: Velo. Greenough's original flexspoon had an unexlained twist. He could never figure out how it got there, but he says that no other flexie ever rode as well as that board.
BTW, this is why I'm not a fan of chiropractic... because chiropractors believe that the human body is supposed to be all balanced... the spine balanced like a column on the Parthenon. I disagree. The universe is wabi sabi, and our bodies should also reflect that dynamic universal quality; it is in motion!
Anyway, this thread makes me feel a little better about my Mysterious Turtle paipo. The shaper of that board couldn't shape two identical rails or symmetrical noses and tails if his life depended on it. |
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Nels Dolphin Glider
Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 340 Location: Ventura County, California
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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Greenough's original flexspoon had an unexlained twist. He could never figure out how it got there, but he says that no other flexie ever rode as well as that board |
I had a Doyle Soft in the quiver from 1979 to about 1985 that developed a twist in the left part of the tail that made it aysemetrical and, well, twisted. I stand regular foot. That board cut back like butter...this was a single fin and I got it for escaping to waves shortboard crowds couldn't ride. Some days I would just play with it, trying to see how much of a glass sheet I could kick up while cutting back.
My paipos are all thin wood so I can't really play with this aspect too much. I don't have a way to doing photos here at the moment...I have photos of that Doyle and an old Paipo ad with a basic tri-plane bottom...interesting stuff.
Nels |
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plypo
Joined: 04 Aug 2006 Posts: Location: Cornwall
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: |
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I have a friend who thinks that one of his boards might be a bit asymetrical... |
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surffoils
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: Surffoils FLIPPER paipo. |
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.,,,,,,,,,,, |
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surffoils
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Doh!. |
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surffoils
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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trying to post pics |
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surffoils
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia
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Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: Surffoils FLIPPER paipo. |
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.... |
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Poobah Dolphin Glider
Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 696 Location: California, San Diego
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surffoils
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia
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Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:19 am Post subject: Thanks !! |
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Thanks Poobah for putting up the pics and the link to the discussion !! Im not the best at doing that....
Dimensions are 47 inches from nose to furthest point, 41inches from nose to other corner and 22 wide. 3 kilos.
The concave rails were planned to enhance the LACK of grip / drag. The carbon-fibre rails turned out really well, strong, smooth. Filling the rails with expanding foam was a magic shortcut so the rails took 15 mins to shape with sandpaper wrapped around the handle of a chisel.
I dont know if Id make a lot of HWS-style paipos, but I will be starting a similar board next week.
I'd better learn how to post pics !
Heres some I prepared earlier..... http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS
Thanks again.
Regards, SF. |
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Poobah Dolphin Glider
Joined: 09 Jan 2004 Posts: 696 Location: California, San Diego
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surffoils
Joined: 12 May 2007 Posts: Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia
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Posted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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Poobah wrote: | http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/6mmPCarb.jpg?t=1186079299
Well now...that's a horse of a different color.
I'll go bump up an old thread on hydrofoils, and maybe you can share a story or two. I'm curious about the bent plastic foils. I've sometimes used boiling water to soften thermoplastic. |
Poobah, I didnt realise just how many plastics are thermoplastics. It makes them easy to bend into shape. I have used polycarbonate, polypropylene and p/ethylene at around 4-8mm thick. I have a BBQ with a covering hood so I cut out the shape, put it in the BBQ on the top rack and with 1 burner on it only takes about 5 mins to soften the plastic. Nice and slowly,,,and wear garden gloves to handle it when bending.
I build simple jigs or use a vise to bend the plastic and hold it while it cools but after 10 mins its set hard.
You can get corners and softer curves. And glue or plastic weld fins/runners/strakes? on too.
Foil the leading and trailing edges with a Dremel.
Done.
Ive still got a sheet of the grey polypropylene that I could use as a base for a paipo... just outline it, bend the rails down so it looks like The Space Shuttle and a thin EVA skin on the deck. Sounds simple enough. I might need a bigger BBQ though....
Whats your technique with the boiling water?
SF
Got the pics sorted out now !! _________________ Highly medicated, for your protection. |
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