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Asymmetrical Paipo Designs and Hydrofoils
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Poobah
Dolphin Glider


Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 696
Location: California, San Diego

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:44 am    Post subject: Asymmetrical Paipo Designs and Hydrofoils Reply with quote

The recent "Flipper" project, an asymmetrical mini-paipo by member Surffoils, has got me thinking about asymmetry vs. symmetry. For starters....Why be symmetrical? Because it's normal for stand-up boards? Are we guilty of being contented citizens of The Village? Perhaps it's time to stop marching in formation and happily twirling our colorful umbrellas. We've been prisoners of balance and symmetry long enough. Let's try something different, and let's not stop at asymmetrical templates. We can unbalance the thickness, rail shape, texture, materials, flex, channells and fin depth. What else? Put the logo on crooked of course. Maybe you do it because your home wave breaks slower to the left than to the right. Maybe you just want to compare apples and oranges. Maybe you do it because you're not a number, but a free man (or woman.)
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Thierry



Joined: 05 Aug 2005
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Location: France

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah, this is a very interesting point.
I can see two reasons why boards shouldn't be symmetric :
1 - You surf (whatever board) on a point break with waves peeling always in the same direction. Then we can say that bottom and top turns aren't done the same way and the board should be adapted to that different technique, speed and shape of the wave.
2 - you surf a stand-up board and your frontside turn is not identical to your your backside turn (at least this is the case for me with my poor technique).

This way has already been explored in the 70-80's with windsurf boards used on point breaks and/or spots where the wind always come from the same direction (and the riding is done down the line and frontside). The bottom turn rail was longer to draw more powerful and stable turn and the top turn rail shorter for a quick turn with far less speed and power.
I'm pretty sure surfboard shapers have tried that but what has it become ? There must be something about this on Swaylocks.
Some Wake boards, kitesurf boards and alpine snowboards are shaped this way.
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Nels
Dolphin Glider


Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 340
Location: Ventura County, California

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Virtually all my homebuilt handboards and paipos are asymmetrical Embarassed
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Thierry



Joined: 05 Aug 2005
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Location: France

PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad Confused Smile Very Happy Laughing ... Rolling Eyes
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tumak
Dolphin Glider


Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 131
Location: FL, Indian Harbour Beach

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha ha! Yeah, if your shaper is really poor, then you're ALREADY riding asymmetrically. But hey, why stop there? To take it to the limit, you have to then move into twist. Example: Velo. Greenough's original flexspoon had an unexlained twist. He could never figure out how it got there, but he says that no other flexie ever rode as well as that board.

BTW, this is why I'm not a fan of chiropractic... because chiropractors believe that the human body is supposed to be all balanced... the spine balanced like a column on the Parthenon. I disagree. The universe is wabi sabi, and our bodies should also reflect that dynamic universal quality; it is in motion!

Anyway, this thread makes me feel a little better about my Mysterious Turtle paipo. The shaper of that board couldn't shape two identical rails or symmetrical noses and tails if his life depended on it.
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Nels
Dolphin Glider


Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 340
Location: Ventura County, California

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Greenough's original flexspoon had an unexlained twist. He could never figure out how it got there, but he says that no other flexie ever rode as well as that board


I had a Doyle Soft in the quiver from 1979 to about 1985 that developed a twist in the left part of the tail that made it aysemetrical and, well, twisted. I stand regular foot. That board cut back like butter...this was a single fin and I got it for escaping to waves shortboard crowds couldn't ride. Some days I would just play with it, trying to see how much of a glass sheet I could kick up while cutting back.

My paipos are all thin wood so I can't really play with this aspect too much. I don't have a way to doing photos here at the moment...I have photos of that Doyle and an old Paipo ad with a basic tri-plane bottom...interesting stuff.

Nels
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plypo



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
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Location: Cornwall

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a friend who thinks that one of his boards might be a bit asymetrical...
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surffoils



Joined: 12 May 2007
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Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:37 pm    Post subject: Surffoils FLIPPER paipo. Reply with quote

.,,,,,,,,,,,
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surffoils



Joined: 12 May 2007
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Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doh!.
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surffoils



Joined: 12 May 2007
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Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trying to post pics
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surffoils



Joined: 12 May 2007
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Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:40 pm    Post subject: Surffoils FLIPPER paipo. Reply with quote

....
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Poobah
Dolphin Glider


Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 696
Location: California, San Diego

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Swaylocks thread is at...

http://www.swaylocks.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=332246;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;guest=13238633

It's a bit photo heavy. Takes a moment...even with cable. But pretty well covers the birth of Flipper. I don't think you mentioned measurements other than thickness. I'm also curious to know if the concave rail was a last-minute design idea, or if you planned on it from the beginning.
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surffoils



Joined: 12 May 2007
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Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:19 am    Post subject: Thanks !! Reply with quote

Thanks Poobah for putting up the pics and the link to the discussion !! Im not the best at doing that....
Dimensions are 47 inches from nose to furthest point, 41inches from nose to other corner and 22 wide. 3 kilos.
The concave rails were planned to enhance the LACK of grip / drag. The carbon-fibre rails turned out really well, strong, smooth. Filling the rails with expanding foam was a magic shortcut so the rails took 15 mins to shape with sandpaper wrapped around the handle of a chisel.
I dont know if Id make a lot of HWS-style paipos, but I will be starting a similar board next week.
I'd better learn how to post pics !
Heres some I prepared earlier..... http://s153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS
Thanks again.
Regards, SF.
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Poobah
Dolphin Glider


Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 696
Location: California, San Diego

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/6mmPCarb.jpg?t=1186079299

Well now...that's a horse of a different color. Surprised I'm curious about the bent plastic foils. I've sometimes used boiling water to soften thermoplastic.
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surffoils



Joined: 12 May 2007
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Location: Gold Coast, (finally), Australia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Poobah wrote:
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/SURFFOILS/6mmPCarb.jpg?t=1186079299

Well now...that's a horse of a different color. Surprised

I'll go bump up an old thread on hydrofoils, and maybe you can share a story or two. I'm curious about the bent plastic foils. I've sometimes used boiling water to soften thermoplastic.


Poobah, I didnt realise just how many plastics are thermoplastics. It makes them easy to bend into shape. I have used polycarbonate, polypropylene and p/ethylene at around 4-8mm thick. I have a BBQ with a covering hood so I cut out the shape, put it in the BBQ on the top rack and with 1 burner on it only takes about 5 mins to soften the plastic. Nice and slowly,,,and wear garden gloves to handle it when bending.
I build simple jigs or use a vise to bend the plastic and hold it while it cools but after 10 mins its set hard.
You can get corners and softer curves. And glue or plastic weld fins/runners/strakes? on too.


Foil the leading and trailing edges with a Dremel.
Done.
Ive still got a sheet of the grey polypropylene that I could use as a base for a paipo... just outline it, bend the rails down so it looks like The Space Shuttle and a thin EVA skin on the deck. Sounds simple enough. I might need a bigger BBQ though....

Whats your technique with the boiling water?
SF

Got the pics sorted out now !!
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